tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post3125500512905917724..comments2024-03-29T05:03:05.347+02:00Comments on Dispatches from Vilnius: Measuring Up to the Big TestJames Fergusonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05901612633415337879noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-59814795328283221022010-11-21T07:39:11.680+02:002010-11-21T07:39:11.680+02:00no problem
:)no problem <br /><br />:)Tripplerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16568801152695491482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-61683964266831443222010-11-21T00:10:36.380+02:002010-11-21T00:10:36.380+02:00I'm not paranoid. But I have been reading you...I'm not paranoid. But I have been reading your posts. That was a mistake.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343768762996537750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-4669525988799041662010-11-20T15:49:40.367+02:002010-11-20T15:49:40.367+02:00No need to get paranoid Rick. It's the ignora...No need to get paranoid Rick. It's the ignorance of the uninformed that I'm referring to.Tripplerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16568801152695491482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-41333059523708301342010-11-20T13:52:37.589+02:002010-11-20T13:52:37.589+02:00"I was referring to people who attack the lea..."I was referring to people who attack the learning disabled as ''making excuses'' for their unavoidable mistakes."<br /><br />If you are referring to my comments, you're off base.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343768762996537750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-62314083283770146762010-11-20T10:34:36.788+02:002010-11-20T10:34:36.788+02:00Taking this further, I have to take tests for my w...Taking this further, I have to take tests for my word processing/typing skills at every job I apply for, whether at a firm or at employment agencies. I don't always find out what my scores are, but they fluctuate wildly (while always above passing mark). This is particularly how it is with the automated tests called "Prove-It!" They include simple, intermediate and "advanced&Martihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11341915969684349287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-42555328331545545322010-11-20T03:42:05.886+02:002010-11-20T03:42:05.886+02:00No. I was referring to people who attack the learn...No. I was referring to people who attack the learning disabled as ''making excuses'' for their unavoidable mistakes. <br /><br />Most people will not fault you if you fall in a ditch because you can't see. Ditto for just about every other handicap. All except learning disability. This has been my experience and that of others in the same boat as myself.Tripplerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16568801152695491482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-82087933585627784602010-11-19T18:52:01.587+02:002010-11-19T18:52:01.587+02:00Trippler, I don't know if you were referring t...Trippler, I don't know if you were referring to me (among others generally) as "making excuses," but I was not making an excuse. I improved over a hundred points the second time I took the Verbal SAT. <br /><br />We didn't have test prep in those days, and we were not diagnosed with learning disabilities.<br /><br />So there it was. College admission was based mainly on high Martihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11341915969684349287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-49439672013101550712010-11-19T16:48:08.067+02:002010-11-19T16:48:08.067+02:00''the SAT had no real bearing on student a...''the SAT had no real bearing on student aptitude''<br /><br />Bingo. This has long been established. Yet the institutions continue to cling unto an archaic idea that such testing is indicative of a student's potential success when it isn't.<br /><br /><br />''parading their IQ''<br /><br />People go around parading their therapy or 12 step sessions as if Tripplerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16568801152695491482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-45497528222074540112010-11-19T13:11:40.675+02:002010-11-19T13:11:40.675+02:00"As you can see the usual answer to any such ..."As you can see the usual answer to any such request for assistance is 'yada yada yada'."<br /><br />I've made no comment about any assistance you might need as a person with dyslexia. How such a disability could be accommodated on an aptitude test is beyond me. What I did comment on is the silly tendency some people having of parading their IQ scores, whether real or Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343768762996537750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-66909708490473560202010-11-19T09:32:19.425+02:002010-11-19T09:32:19.425+02:00Peter Sacks has also weighed in on the issue with ...Peter Sacks has also weighed in on the issue with his books, Standardized Minds and Tearing Down the Gates.James Fergusonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05901612633415337879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-40651372613641098602010-11-19T09:05:56.298+02:002010-11-19T09:05:56.298+02:00I guess I need to better proofread my comments now...I guess I need to better proofread my comments now that we are discussing scholastic aptitude tests. Nevertheless, I have a hard time seeing any real connection between the SAT and college performance. <br /><br />UF, in 1982 (give or take a year), admitted 500 students, who had scored below the entrance requirement on the SAT, into a special summer program before the Fall term. Those who madeJames Fergusonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05901612633415337879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-63763344955707673152010-11-19T08:58:35.040+02:002010-11-19T08:58:35.040+02:00By no means was a belittling in your situation, tr...By no means was a belittling in your situation, trippler. I had a good friend had had dyslexia. He was given his examinations orally in high school. An estimated 1 in 10 persons suffer from mild to accute dyslexia.<br /><br />Reading Oliver Sacks' The Mind's Eye has been fascinating as he discusses dyslexia, and various other forms of reading impairment suffered by stroke victims, likeJames Fergusonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05901612633415337879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-32445758159863311762010-11-19T05:38:51.041+02:002010-11-19T05:38:51.041+02:00''many different disabilities''
T...''many different disabilities''<br /><br />The difference being that society goes out of its way to accommodate certain handicapped people such as through kneeling buses, bathroom facilities, automatic doors. But it makes virtually no effort to help those who need similar accommodations in school. As you can see the usual answer to any such request for assistance is 'yada yadaTripplerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16568801152695491482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-71015038500099527762010-11-19T02:18:35.387+02:002010-11-19T02:18:35.387+02:00Yeah, and my IQ is 205, but . . . yada, yada, yada...Yeah, and my IQ is 205, but . . . yada, yada, yada. Good grief.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343768762996537750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-13694556375645861392010-11-19T00:42:48.492+02:002010-11-19T00:42:48.492+02:00Gosh, Trippler. I don't think anyone here thi...Gosh, Trippler. I don't think anyone here thinks that's funny. <br /><br />But on the positive side, I do know several very accomplished people -- including the paleontologist Jack Horner -- who are extremely dyslexic. I think it's just one of those many different disabilities bright people learn to live with and accommodate in different ways, as you obviously have done.avrdshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07997163948247445009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-76863462447379058992010-11-18T23:16:03.395+02:002010-11-18T23:16:03.395+02:00Just the other day I was looking at an online map ...Just the other day I was looking at an online map as I had a meeting to go to near Jackson Street in St Paul. It looked d@mn near impossible for me to get to that destination without going through hassles of all kinds. I checked out another map and saw what the hell my problem was: thanks to my godd@mn dyslexia I saw Jackson street was actually West of my intended destination (I thought it was Tripplerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16568801152695491482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-39730687212498222412010-11-18T21:42:38.414+02:002010-11-18T21:42:38.414+02:00I actually have no problem with the tests generall...I actually have no problem with the tests generally -- as long as they are part of a "portfolio" of considerations when admitting students to university. <br /><br />Learning how to "read" and weigh evidence or data, for example, are important for all undergraduates and an area I think you can study for (there it is again -- 5 pts. off). <br /><br />Ditto reading for avrdshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07997163948247445009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-73622393652877543282010-11-18T21:17:31.961+02:002010-11-18T21:17:31.961+02:00I don't remember any writing element to the te...I don't remember any writing element to the tests when I took them. Must be a relatively recent addition. <br /><br />I thought the ACT was better balanced, spread out over 6 components, but it seems to have become obscured by the SAT.James Fergusonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05901612633415337879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-41137678191227927722010-11-18T21:02:52.922+02:002010-11-18T21:02:52.922+02:00avrds: Having graded GRE "essays," I ca...avrds: Having graded GRE "essays," I can understand how easy it might be for an accomplished writer like you to score only a C+. I found the grading rubric for the writing portion of the GRE to be borderline arbitrary in some instances. For that reason, I would much prefer to have my verbal skills tested objectively. It has been years since I graded SAT essays, but I don't Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343768762996537750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-71474421115846775622010-11-18T20:48:04.622+02:002010-11-18T20:48:04.622+02:00The SAT has an essay writing component, as does th...The SAT has an essay writing component, as does the GRE for instance, which tests a person's ability to communicate in writing based on an assigned issue. But an equally important facet of communication, or verbal skill, goes to a person's ability to interact with text. Like it or not, that ability or the lack therefo can be tested objectively. What is nonsensical is claiming that it Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343768762996537750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-73651773321207656362010-11-18T17:14:27.660+02:002010-11-18T17:14:27.660+02:00Who would have thunk that, trippler?
From what I&...Who would have thunk that, trippler?<br /><br />From what I've read of Lemann's book, he is mostly questioning the role of scholastic aptitude tests in created a meritocracy. He appears to argue that the tests are just as elitist as the old system and that many of those who benefited from these tests are now arduously defending them when it comes to referendums like Proposition 209.<br /James Fergusonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05901612633415337879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-66634531471213171332010-11-18T16:34:47.535+02:002010-11-18T16:34:47.535+02:00Well, luckily for me (funny way to call it, I gues...Well, luckily for me (funny way to call it, I guess) I don't have to make excuses as I have been certified as learning disabled.Tripplerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16568801152695491482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-17286259761626325272010-11-18T16:12:39.618+02:002010-11-18T16:12:39.618+02:00From a different perspective, I work with academic...From a different perspective, I work with academics interested in K-16 testing in the sciences. Research in those fields has demonstrated that while standardized, multiple choice tests are easy to grade, they are not very effective in testing for learning. <br /><br />In fact, they can have the opposite effect, encouraging students to study for the test -- usually vocabulary in the sciences (oravrdshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07997163948247445009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-59216216312530309562010-11-18T16:01:00.455+02:002010-11-18T16:01:00.455+02:00A dust up over standardized testing ... who would ...A dust up over standardized testing ... who would have thought?<br /><br />Having had to be re-tested to enter graduate school, I can attest (sorry) that you can prepare for these things. Part of the prep is just knowing how they work and what they are looking for. But you also have to have a good command of basic mathematics which, for me because I don't use it much now, is a real test. <avrdshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07997163948247445009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9103772230302021699.post-4185749274088283732010-11-18T14:11:01.286+02:002010-11-18T14:11:01.286+02:00Nonsense. How can multiple choice tests possibly ...Nonsense. How can multiple choice tests possibly give any strong impression of verbal skills. Grammar and to a certain degree reading comprehension, yes, but the ability to communicate no. I think universities and teachers have fallen into the trap of using such tests because they are convenient. <br /><br />I thought one of the funniest exams I ever took was the foreign service exam. There James Fergusonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05901612633415337879noreply@blogger.com