Seems like John Mearsheimer is getting a lot of currency these days. Articles have appeared in The Economist and New Yorker, in which he updates his earlier thesis that holds the US responsible for the turmoil in Ukraine. Mearsheimer, a distinguished service professor at the University of Chicago, has long held a skeptical view of liberal foreign policy, favoring realpolitik instead. He still views Eastern Europe as part of Russia's sphere of influence and believes the US and EU shouldn't meddle in this region. He points to the 1995 Balkan Wars as the first flash point, followed by the subsequent expansion of NATO and enlargement of the EU into Eastern Europe in the early 2000s. Through it all, he believes the US and EU ran roughshod over Russia's interests in the region, but the country was too weak to defend itself. Then along came Putin to rebuild the great Russian state and once again reclaim its influence in the region by "defending" Abkhazia and South Ossetia from Georgian bully boy Mikheil Saakashvili in 2008, thereby re-establishing his authority in the region. This in Mearsheimer's view brought further NATO expansion to a halt. But, the EU then offered its Eastern Partnership initiative in an attempt to integrate Ukraine into its economy, which once again forced Putin to play his hand by invading the country in 2014, at which time this article was written.
In Mearsheimer's mind, this was the West's "final tool for peeling Kiev away from Moscow," as if Ukraine was now an oblast of Russia. He defended Sergei Lavrov's assertion that the EU was a "stalking horse" for NATO, ignoring there are any number of countries who are a member of one and not the other. Finland for instance is in the EU but not NATO, and shares the largest contiguous border with Russia among the Western nations. The rest of his old paper trots out all the tired arguments as to why Ukraine is a bridge too far, ignoring the fact that it was the lack of economic development in the country that spurred Ukraine to seek greener pastures.
The Kremlin, which should be distinguished from Russia, never saw Ukraine as anymore than a conduit for its gas supply to the EU. As tensions began to increase after the Orange Revolution of 2005, Russia sought agreements directly with Germany to create Nord Stream, which would bypass Ukraine all together, and further sink the country into economic oblivion. This was especially true after a second uprising in Ukraine led to the ouster of the Kremlin-backed strong man, Viktor Yanukovych. Putin was furious, and blamed the insurrection on the US, as he had the Rose Revolution in Georgia, which led to the ascension of Saakashvili in 2003. There was some grounding for the previous revolution as Saakashvili had studied in the US and was a product of American conservative think tanks. However, the Ukrainian revolution was entirely homegrown with little connection to American interests. Ukrainians wanted what the other Eastern European countries now had - economic growth. They were furious when Yanukovych rejected the EU trade agreement in late 2013, which they believed was the first step toward EU integration.
As it is, many Ukrainians live and work through out the EU. They are highly valued as skilled labor, which is why Germany is taking in refugees, hoping to fill the roughly 300,000 open vacancies in their job market. Even the UK, historically reticent to welcome refugees, is opening the door to Ukrainians for similar reasons.
You almost get the feeling that Mearsheimer is a tool of the Kremlin. He defends Putin at every turn, never for one moment treating Ukraine as if it could have an independent thought of its own. In his addled mind, everything that transpired in 2013-2014, leading to the ouster of Yanukovych, was the direct result of US intervention. Mearsheimer then drifts into the realpolitik babble of Ukraine being a buffer zone for Russia, recalling the worst aspects of an empire that had long treated Eastern Europe as its "pale" in an effort to keep tyrants such as Napoleon and Hitler at bay. In Mearsheimer's view, Russia has the same concerns today with American imperialism, with its vassal states in Europe promulgating a liberal notion of democracy that would never fly in the Kremlin. Probably so, but we can no longer view independent countries like Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia as buffer zones. They have their own economic aspirations and security concerns separate from Russia.
I suppose the biggest fear in the Kremlin is that Russia might splinter again. After all, it is an enormous country, four times the size of all the EU countries combined. It straddles the great Eurasian expanse, controlling a vast amount of oil, gas, mineral and timber reserves that have only been partially exploited. What's to stop its many oblasts from seeking independent status, if they no longer feel the Kremlin serves their interests?
Also lost in all of Mearsheimer's prattle is that the US and EU have repeatedly reached out to Russia since the collapse of the Soviet Union. It was in their interest to bring Russia into its liberal economic fold, which included making it an adjunct member of the G7 in 1997, despite an economy that lagged far behind the other member states. The US figured that in time Russia would have one of the largest economies in the world. Alas, that didn't happen. Russia still lags far behind other G7 countries after more than two decades of Putin. It's GDP is ranked 11th in the world. When you break Russia's wealth down per capita, it plummets to 57, far behind former soviet states like Estonia and Lithuania, whose economies have grown exponentially since the 1990s thanks to EU integration.
Mearsheimer is still stuck in the Cold War paradigm, as is the Kremlin too. One can argue that NATO has overextended its influence in Eastern Europe, but here again there were legitimate concerns. Russia actively supported Serbia in the Balkan Wars, hoping to maintain at least some semblance of the former Yugoslavia, which was more or less a satellite state of the Soviet Union. NATO stepped in when Serbia began committing massive atrocities against minorities, paving the way for the first open confrontation with Russia in the post-Soviet world, which Russia essentially lost. Other Eastern European countries took note and wanted the security blanket that they believed NATO provided. So, we saw the first expansion in 1999 that included Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary; followed in 2004 by an even greater expansion that included seven Eastern European countries including all three Baltic states, which shared direct borders with Russia. Former Yugoslavian states have also joined the EU and NATO. Even Serbia has applied for EU membership, and is hoping to complete negotiations by 2024.
Today, we see a very similar situation in Ukraine. At some point NATO will be forced to step in, as it did in the Balkan Wars, given the atrocities we see being committed throughout the country. Not content with cleaving off Luhansk and Donetsk, as he did Crimea eight years ago, Putin decided to launch a major offensive to cleave off everything east of the Dnieper river, taking Kyiv with it, and forming a new state that would be subservient to the Kremlin. He just didn't bank on their being so much resistance, and is now resorting to punitive missile strikes on civilian targets that are leaving scores of innocent people dead, including children, displacing millions in the process. Putin figures that if the US and NATO can carve up Yugoslavia then he is free to do the same in Ukraine, whether there is any popular will behind it or not.
This maximalist expansion is audacious in the extreme, but I'm sure Mearsheimer defends it in the same language he defended Putin's previous incursions into Ukraine. He like many "realists" of his generation was perfectly content with keeping the Soviet Union in tact. It was much easier to deal with in a realpolitik sense. President George H.W. Bush himself wasn't prepared for the fragmentation that took place on his watch, even if he was proud to be the president who presided over the "fall of communism." It is hard for such persons as John Mearsheimer to see these former soviet states as real countries, preferring now to regard them as Western vassal states. A language eerily similar to Sergei Lavrov, whom Mearsheimer extolled in his 2014 paper.
Anyway, I doubt too many people will have the energy to read Mearsheimer. His time is up. We live in a much more dynamic economic and political world than he is willing to accept. Putin and his apologists represent the last bastion of realpolitik. Not even China holds such anachronistic views of the world.
For several months I have read that there have been increased tensions along the Kosovo-Serbia border. This should trouble Americans more than the situation between Russia-Ukraine. Kosovo is a NATO protectorate and Serbia has long been an ally of Russia. Any spark there could light up a real severe conflict as these people play for keeps. They don't run away from battle, they face it head on. That could draw in parties interested in war profit making and be terribly bloody.
ReplyDeleteAs for Mearsheimer, yeah his ideas may well be an oversimplification of the events. As you and I previously discussed, this conflict has been going on since the days of the Schism and that was well before the birth of mythic Zaporozhian Cossack Taras Bulba. Because of this long and difficult history, it is d@mn near impossible to pin this mess on the West and its alliances since we are new to their age old conflict. Whatever the case, I am a long standing opponent of USA membership in NATO and call for our withdrawal from that group. Let Europe settle its own affairs.
We have tens of thousands of hungry and homeless people in the USA and millions without adequate health care (I am one of them). Their needs are of far greater consequence to me.
I don't see having a commitment to European security and providing food and housing for homeless and low-income families as mutually exclusive. US has a big stake in what goes on in Europe, especially as it impacts its largest trading partner - the EU. Not to mention the many cultural links. I also don't think you have to dig so far back to provide precedents for the current war in Ukraine. It first declared its independence in 1919, which led to a very bloody war with the emergent Soviet Union.
ReplyDeleteBiden needs to get his butt out of Europe and go back to Washington DC where it belongs. Too many problems here that need prioritization and we, not the Europeans, are paying his salary. Solve these damn things first, then worry about everyone else.
DeleteThat's a rather narrow view of events. After all, foreign policy is the president's primary concern. Congress traditionally deals with domestic issues. Yet, it seems most Americans think the president is all powerful. Biden has done an exemplary job balancing European and American concerns in regard to Russia.
Delete"exemplary job"
DeleteI guess you haven't been watching the polls or viewing/listening to commentators in the USA. Both sides of the political spectrum have criticized Biden accusing him of doing either too much or too little about foreign affairs. You are one of few (VERY few) who thinks he has done a good job.
Sorry, cannot agree with you that foreign policy is the president's primary concern. Domestic policy is as we have discussed in our past studies of our Founding Fathers and all president's thereafter. True, international affairs emerged as a more significant issue beginning with Wilson, FDR, HST, and all thereafter. But to say that it is the 𝐦𝐨𝐬𝐭 significant matter is unprovable.
Something kinda funny happened online the other day: I was on a pro Putin channel on you tube and found myself in the middle of a strange alliance between American rightists and American communists. Remarkably both are on Putin's side in this war! Never expetd to see the like. I told these people, I am not "pro Putin". I'm pro PEACE. Let the Ruskies & Ukes determine their own fate. Just do it without us as this shit has been going on for over a 1,000 and there's nothing we can do about it. Let Zelenskyy recognize the independence of DFR & LFR, give those victims of Azov atrocities the reparations they deserve, and settle your affairs at the negotiation table rather than the battle field. You don't need us to take your hands like little children. Grow up and fight your own battles. We have enough problems here at home which will only get worse if they are not addressed. Communists and rightists agreeing on something for once. How remarkable is that?
erratum: expetd should be read as ''expected''
DeleteI really don't care about polls. I just see what Biden has done to bring NATO and EU leaders together. It seems you aren't paying any attention to events in Europe. Your choice.
DeleteI assume you are still tuning into RT. This "separatist movement" began in 2014 at the instigation of the Kremlin. In an effort to build a case for independence, these "atrocities" have largely been manufactured by the Russian propaganda networks to create a situation they believe to be similar to the Balkan Wars. In this way, they can justify intervention the same way NATO did in those wars. They pulled this stunt in Georgia too, back in 2008, and got away with it. I just hope it doesn't happen again.
As for domestic policy, the president can't pass legislation himself, as we have seen with BBB. He has to get it through Congress, and when members of his own party refuse to sign onto the bill because they are too indebted to the coal industry, you can't really pin the blame on Biden, can you? Democrats have to do a better job of winning Congressional seats.
RT was censored on youtube which makes it difficult to watch. Will check if its back on.
DeleteThe USA had no problem with creating separatist movements in Korea or Vietnam, then fomenting civil wars there, and then intervening militarily which resulted in highly profitable stock portfolio increases for the elites in the military industrial complex. We've spoken about those scenarios at great length in the past and we need not repeat any of it here.
Whatever the case in Donbas, the people of Donetsk and Luhansk have voted by referendum for freedom from Ukraine. That point remains INCONTROVERTIBLE. If Ukraine can secede from Russia, than Donbas can do the same with Ukraine.
Re domestic policy, as one who lives in poverty class, sees homeless veterans sleeping in carboard boxes, passes by impoverished people on breadlines every day, the City has its incinerator just north of the ghetto where I live and the City dump which releases just as much cancerous pollution is only blocks from where I live, and as one who will never again get free health care, I continue to get p!ssed off because we are wasting our resources overseas rather than in fixing all the goddamn problems we have here at home. Every dollar wasted overseas results in another dead American each and every day. Nobody overseas gives a flying shit about the poor and downtrodden in USA ghettos or reservations. Things only get more f____d up every day but somehow we need to wipe the boots and kiss the butts of Europeans who can never learn to solve their own problems. Somehow their problems are supposed to be of greater significance to us than are our own problems. Somehow we need to set those matters aside for another day. Same garbage we've heard since the Vietnam war.
Democrats can easily win more seats in Congress. Just prioritize the USA like they did in the 60s. Forget these foreign wars as they are of no value to any of us. They lost Virginia, Biden's poll numbers are down despite the improvement in the economy, and the Blue Tide is disappearing again. These idiots just won't learn.
What you repeatedly fail to understand, Trip, is that this "separatist movement" in the Donbas was entirely contrived by Russia, when it sent it's little "green men" into the region in 2014, as part of their first incursion. They don't even control the whole region, only about 40% of it. There was a line drawn as part of the Minsk Agreement to end hostilities, but they have persisted because neither side is willing to recognize that line of demarkation. So, it is very much contested, which is why the civil war has persisted for 8 years.
DeleteRussia is really good at this. They love cleaving off little parts of countries and setting up false states, which they have also done in Georgia and Moldova. But, Vlad the Impaler got impatient and decided to take all of Ukraine, the Eastern half of it anyway. A former Russian Duma MP was on CNN the other night, saying that Putin actually suggested taking everything East of the Dnieper, and leaving the Western half to be divided among Poland and Hungary, which he thought were sympathetic to his cause! This is why he is so angry with the two countries.
Just because Korea and Vietnam got carved up doesn't mean we should continue to carve up nations to suit the whims of autocrats. To appease Putin by letting him have Donbas would be a huge mistake, as it will only embolden him to continue in his mapmaking. What next, Narva in Estonia? It's 90% Russian. Yet, they seem content to stay in Estonia. No separatist flags yet.
As for the 1960s, the US continued to engage in proxy wars around the world, while pushing for civil rights on the home front. Once again foreign and domestic policy are not mutually exclusive, as you seem to imply. Just this time around, the US finds itself on the right side of history, hoping to contain and ultimately eliminate a Hitler wannabe, who as you well know loves to meddle in American politics.
If you choose to believe that Putin originated the Donbas independence movement so bet it. I can link you to online sources which answer such a viewpoint but it's clear where you stand. Whatever the case this goddamn war is none of our business.
ReplyDeleteJust today local news report indicated that food shelves have hit a low point. In fact the Salvation Army reported it hit the lowest point in 30 years. Small wonder why homeless people get into fist fights on the streets when arguing about getting their hands on discarded food in garbage cans. If we get involved in still another needless foreign war, such conditions will only get worse. I have to see this every day. You won't. Lucky you.
I'm curious what you believe now with all the atrocities being exposed, and the Kremlin calling them "fake news.."
ReplyDeleteReports from Russia of Azov committing atrocities in Donbas are also dismissed by pro war/interventionists as "fake news" as well. Not being there myself, it is impossible for me to ascertain the truth of any of these charges.
DeleteAs for what goes on here in the USA, on Monday evening I was in down town St Paul when a street beggar asked if I could spare him some change. Had no choice but to tell him I'm on Food Stamps and am probably in worse shape than he is. The poor guy got a sad look on his face and apologized for having asked for a handout. Again, there are 𝑻𝑯𝑶𝑼𝑺𝑨𝑵𝑫𝑺 - in fact 𝐓𝐄𝐍𝐒 𝐨𝐟 𝐓𝐇𝐎𝐔𝐒𝐀𝐍𝐃𝐒 - dying in poverty or due to lack of health care in the USA every year. If you are a patriotic citizen of this country then this is your primary concern. Not what goes on overseas as those people are in a better position to help themselves.
So you choose the "truth" you want to believe.
DeleteThe "truth" remains that THOUSANDS of poor Americans are needlessly dying every year while others demand that we spend our resources overseas rather than fixing the problems at home.
DeleteYou've read a handful of dubious dispatches (I presume from RT) on the Donbas, and determined that this war isn't worth fighting, and so the US should isolate itself and tackle homelessness and police brutality back home. Isn't this something states should take up? After all, they have governments, they have financial resources to deal with these very issues. What really can the federal government do beyond the billions it has poured into states to specifically deal with these issues? If you have the answers then maybe you should take it up with your local leaders, as I read recently that Mayor Adams is clearing encampments to tidy up New York.
ReplyDeleteI would argue with you about your isolationist stance but it isn't worth it. I will continue to post on the subject of Ukraine because that is what is most important to me right now. I'm glad to see that Biden has not taken an isolationist stance, which I'm sure Trump would have done. Otherwise, Putin probably would be planning his Baltic invasion right now.
I'm sure you are happy at hearing the good news that the 𝑴𝒐𝒄𝒌𝒃𝒂 is in Davy Jones's Locker because it is clear Putin is no threat to the West. A piece of shit vessel that can only collect barnacles was viewed as the flagship of the Russian navy. Even the crudest of Western technology could take down that rusted tin can. How pathetic is that?
ReplyDeleteAs for Biden if he chooses to go to war it'll mean the end of the Democrats in power and the end of any chance for more war involvement. When tRump goes back into the White Wash House he will pull back the troops like he did with Afghanistan.
Obviously you are uninformed as to what is going on in the USA since a very large portion of those homeless people here are veterans. People who sacrificed their blood for people like you are in misery and all you offer them is more misery. Since this is a problem created by the federal government, it needs to be solved by it rather than the states.
By the way it is interesting that you use the term isolationist in this instance when the USA and the rest of the world didn't give a shit or lift a finger when the conflicts took place in Africa and FAR more people died. As always to so many people, black lives don't even begin to matter.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you should read my latest post.
ReplyDeleteI read where the vessel's Captain Kuprin was croaked in the Uke missile attack. According to various news accounts a large amount of officers and administrators have been killed, soldiers highly demoralized, the flag ship is sunk, war materiel has gone missing and has not been forwarded to the battle lines, Putin's economy has been tanked, and people are not only fleeing Ukraine but are fleeing Russia as well. For all the war hysteria that has been going on these past weeks you have to wonder, how the hell Putin plans on winning World War III since he doesn't have the soldiers or equipment to mount a half way decent battle against the West's superior weaponry and military leadership. If you are honest you'll have no choice but to concede that the only "war" Putin can win against the West is Call of Duty or some other computer game.
DeleteThat's an interesting observation and a departure from your previous posts. However, Russia seems to be overcoming its losses, and is regrouping along the Eastern seacoast of Ukraine with Mariupol the last holdout, and even here the resistance trapped in the steel yards of the city, unable to get any reinforcements due to the blockades. The remaining residents live in a post-apocalyptic nightmare, not sure what their future holds. There are reports that they will be deported, the Ukrainians anyway, with new Russian citizens brought in when the Kremlin has the opportunity to rebuild the city, assuming they are able to hold onto it.
DeleteThis is the reality Ukrainians are waking up to. They not only will lose Donbas, but their entire link to the Sea of Azov. Eventually, Russia will make a push southward and try to take Odesa. At that point, Ukraine becomes landlocked. This also brings Moldova into play, as currently Russia controls the breakaway Transnitria sliver along the Ukrainian border and may very well decide to take the country as a whole. After all, Moldova was also "created" during Soviet times and in Putin's mind has no more legitimacy than does Ukraine. Their PM was in Washington trying to get assurances from the Biden administration that this will not come to pass.
While all this may seem far away to the average America, the fact that Putin is actively using American airwaves to propagate his lies is not. Also, you can bet Russia will do what it can to support Republicans in the upcoming midterms and beyond. Having tasted success in 2016, the Kremlin will continue to influence American elections with the hope of a sympathetic presidential administration in 2024. Putin will stay in Ukraine indefinitely, unless NATO forces him out. There is no diplomacy in this case. Putin figures he has time on his side. This is why I think this issue is relevant to Americans, at least those who value freedom. The longer Putin is able to keep this war going, the more unrest he creates in the market place, and this affects everyone.
Re my observations, we keep getting different news reports every day as to the state of affairs. One day we hear the Russians are winning, the next day that it is the Ukrainians who are. Who knows what the truth is??
DeleteAs for losing Donbas, it declared its independence from Ukraine in 2014. Again, if Ukraine has the right to secede from Russia it follows logically that Donbas has the same right to self determination.
Interesting how Republicans view the affairs there:
https://i.imgur.com/lNqK04W.png
I do agree that the Russians will rejoice if tRump and the Republicans ascend once again to the Capitol and White Wash House. Interestingly, GOP voters claim to be the champions of freedom and limited government unless it is for an expanded military industrial complex and unabated support for police in their crimes against the public, especially in the ghettos.
Whatever happens next in the Russia-Ukraine border is up to Fate to determine. Just do so without any American dollars or personnel as we have more than enough problems here.
At the risk of beating a dead horse, only part of Donbas declared itself independent, or more specifically two highly dubious rebel leaders declared themselves independent. Before the war, two thirds of Donbas was controlled by Ukraine, and the majority of this region is ethnic Ukrainian. Without Mariupol, which had been Ukrainian controlled, this region had no access to the Sea of Azov. So, you obviously are working from a very wrong "set of facts" in this regard.
DeleteAlso, as I pointed out in another post, the residents of Donbas voted overwhelming in joining Ukraine when it declared itself independent from the Soviet Union. There is nothing in the Ukrainian constitution that allows oblasts to secede from the state. This was purely a concoction of a small group of ethnic Russians living in the region seeking to join Russia, and trying to use Abkhazia and South Ossetia as precedents for their actions. However, Abkhazia and South Ossetia never voted to join Georgia in independence in 1991. Here in lies the crucial difference, if one is to draw on precedents.
Here is a break down of of the vote by oblast in 1991. Even Crimeans voted 54% in favor of independence from the Soviet Union. Donbas is divided into Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_referendum
There were also votes via referendum for independence in 2014. But again, believe what you wish to believe. As far as I'm concerned whatever the case, 𝐢𝐭 𝐢𝐬 𝐧𝐨𝐧𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐠𝐨𝐝𝐝𝐚𝐦 𝐛𝐮𝐬𝐢𝐧𝐞𝐬𝐬!
DeleteA redneck buddy of mine called me up this morning and he watched tv as Biden said he will send a billion or so to Ukraine to aid it in its war. As usual my buddy complained about homeless veterans and the poor suffering in the USA. I join him in that as, like him, am also poor and don't like to see our money go overseas while we wallow in misery. We paid our taxes all these years. No Ukrainian ever paid a cent to the government but the entire country is getting a freebie at our expense. Some justice, huh?
Yes, literally under the gun, as Putin sent in his Wagner Group to bolster the two thugs that staged those referendum votes. As it was, the vote only took place in the parts of Luhansk and Donetsk they controlled, not the oblasts as a whole. So, once again you work from a false premise. I'm just curious why you persist in this, trippler? If it is "none of our goddam business," you shouldn't give a rat's ass what goes on in Ukraine, and would talk about something else. Yet, you seem to love an argument no matter how baseless your claims. It is my business, since I live in a country that is directly affected by Russia's actions.
DeleteAs for US assistance to Ukraine, it is a tiny fraction of what the US blew in Afghanistan and Iraq, and a small fraction of the military budget apportioned every year by Congress. You really think an additional $800 million is going to break the bank? The reason homeless vets and poor suffer in America isn't because of Ukraine. It's because Congress lacks the consensus to pass legislation that would provide the aid they need. So don't equate the two. It's just makes you look even more daft.
"baseless"
DeletePoor choice of words since I find just as many online sources which say the precise opposite of everything you say. Again, if you wish to buy into the Ukrainian side of the argument, that's your choice. But please do not resort to pejorative by saying "daft" just because it doesn't square with your view. Such epithets only weaken your argument. In fact it makes you sound like a Rush Limbaugh or Alex Jones.
The continued prioritization of foreign issues is what causes homelessness among veterans and other forms of misery that we have in the States. While you are celebrating this prioritization, many are continuing to die on the streets. If that's what you want, you got it. Naturally, as a patriotic American, my country, my fellow citizens come first. Today, tomorrow, forever. Once we fix these problems then we can attend to your pals overseas. I'm sure that if you had a crisis at home you would not allow some altercation going on in the streets to distract you from attending to your domestic needs. You will attend to those other needs after you fix the problem at home. It's the most natural thing to do. And that's what we need to do as well.
You repeatedly show your poor understanding of the situation when you don't realize that the rebels only took a small part of the Donbas region. Not content with that meager possession, Putin has waged a war to not only take over the whole region, but the entire Ukrainian seacoast. That's why I call your assertions "baseless." You're the one sounding like Alex Jones with what amounts to little more than a conspiracy theory you formed from your gleanings of RT.
DeleteYour "concern" for the homeless strikes me as nothing more than an attempt to deflect discussion. Another conservative tactic by the way. Anyway, I'm through with this. I can see it is pointless to discuss Ukraine with you. Sad.
General McCaffery - Putin hasn't got a ghost of a chance:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.today.com/video/-putin-strategically-lost-the-war-already-retired-us-general-says-137852485920?playlist=mmlsnnd_todayarchivessaturday
𝑹𝒆𝒕𝒊𝒓𝒆𝒅 𝟒-𝒔𝒕𝒂𝒓 𝒈𝒆𝒏𝒆𝒓𝒂𝒍 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝑵𝑩𝑪 𝑵𝒆𝒘𝒔 𝒎𝒊𝒍𝒊𝒕𝒂𝒓𝒚 𝒂𝒏𝒂𝒍𝒚𝒔𝒕 𝑩𝒂𝒓𝒓𝒚 𝑴𝒄𝑪𝒂𝒇𝒇𝒓𝒆𝒚 𝒋𝒐𝒊𝒏𝒔 𝑺𝒂𝒕𝒖𝒓𝒅𝒂𝒚 𝑻𝑶𝑫𝑨𝒀 𝒕𝒐 𝒅𝒊𝒔𝒄𝒖𝒔𝒔 𝒘𝒉𝒆𝒓𝒆 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝒘𝒂𝒓 𝒊𝒏 𝑼𝒌𝒓𝒂𝒊𝒏𝒆 𝒔𝒕𝒂𝒏𝒅𝒔 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒊𝒇 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝑼𝒌𝒓𝒂𝒊𝒏𝒊𝒂𝒏 𝒎𝒊𝒍𝒊𝒕𝒂𝒓𝒚 𝒂𝒓𝒆 𝒈𝒆𝒕𝒕𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝒖𝒑𝒑𝒆𝒓 𝒉𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒂𝒇𝒕𝒆𝒓 𝒔𝒊𝒏𝒌𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝑹𝒖𝒔𝒔𝒊𝒂𝒏 𝒇𝒍𝒂𝒈𝒔𝒉𝒊𝒑 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝑴𝒐𝒔𝒌𝒗𝒂. 𝑴𝒄𝑪𝒂𝒇𝒇𝒓𝒆𝒚 𝒔𝒂𝒚𝒔 “𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒓𝒆’𝒔 𝒛𝒆𝒓𝒐 𝒄𝒉𝒂𝒏𝒄𝒆 𝒐𝒇 𝑹𝒖𝒔𝒔𝒊𝒂 𝒆𝒇𝒇𝒆𝒄𝒕𝒊𝒗𝒆𝒍𝒚 𝒕𝒉𝒓𝒆𝒂𝒕𝒆𝒏𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝒓𝒆𝒔𝒕 𝒐𝒇 𝑵𝑨𝑻𝑶.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HamnGTyFbII&ab_channel=CGTN
ReplyDeletecommentator says:
𝒟𝑜 𝒶𝓈 𝐼 𝓈𝒶𝓎, 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝓈 𝐼 𝒹𝑜. 𝒯𝒽𝑒 𝒰$ 𝒹𝒾𝒹𝓃'𝓉 𝒸𝒶𝓇𝑒 𝒶𝒷𝑜𝓊𝓉 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝒸𝒾𝓋𝒾𝓁𝒾𝒶𝓃 𝒸𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁𝓉𝒾𝑒𝓈 𝒾𝓃 𝒮𝓎𝓇𝒾𝒶, 𝐿𝒾𝒷𝓎𝒶, 𝒜𝒻𝑔𝒽𝒶𝓃𝒾𝓈𝓉𝒶𝓃 𝒶𝓃𝒹 𝐼𝓇𝒶𝓆 𝓌𝒽𝑒𝓃 𝒾𝓉 |𝓃𝓋𝒶𝒹𝑒𝒹 𝓉𝒽𝑒𝓂 𝒷𝓊𝓉 𝓃𝑜𝓌 𝒾𝓉 𝓅𝓇𝑒𝓉𝑒𝓃𝒹𝓈 𝓉𝑜 𝒸𝒶𝓇𝑒 𝒶𝒷𝑜𝓊𝓉 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝒰𝓀𝓇а𝒾𝓃𝒾𝒶𝓃𝓈 𝓌𝒽𝑒𝓃 𝓈𝑜𝓂𝑒𝑜𝓃𝑒 𝑒𝓁𝓈𝑒 𝒾𝓈 𝒹𝑜𝒾𝓃𝑔 𝓌𝒽𝒶𝓉 𝓉𝒽𝑒𝓎 𝒽𝒶𝓋𝑒 𝒹𝑜𝓃𝑒 𝓈𝑜 𝓂𝒶𝓃𝓎 𝓉𝒾𝓂𝑒𝓈 𝒷𝑒𝒻𝑜𝓇𝑒. 𝐻𝓎𝓅𝑜𝒸𝓇𝒾𝓈𝓎 𝒶𝓉 𝒾𝓉𝓈 𝒷𝑒𝓈𝓉.
Actually, hypocrisy at its worst.
Boy, you really know how to pick'em, trip! CGTN is a Chinese state-run cable news station. One indefensible act doesn't excuse another.
ReplyDeleteBarry McCaffery can hardly be called a leftist or pro Soviet/Russia stooge.
DeleteNot much of a prognosticator either, as it turns out,
Deletehttps://www.cnbc.com/video/2022/02/24/we-should-assume-within-90-days-putin-will-have-ukraine-says-retired-gen-barry-mccaffrey.html
Fox network (hardly a mouthpiece for leftists viewpoints has been singing praises for Putin all this time.
DeleteConservative Rand Paul recently went on record as saying Ukraine has always been part of Russia and it should not be joining NATO:
https://www.rawstory.com/rand-paul-2657217736/
I still find it funny that for over 50 years I have been called a commie, fellow traveler, pinko, and all that other shit for defending Russia against American imperialism. Today I say a few words in defense of Russia and now I've been called fascist and right winger. Hysterical!
I guess you've met the other end of the circle and become a Putinist. Good company you keep there, trippler.
Deletehttps://abcnews.go.com/International/sen-rand-paul-meets-russian-senators-moscow-invites/story?id=57057225
Pinko one day, Putinist the next (but fear not, I am not now and never have been a Repukeblicon). Amazing turnabout. All that just for being anti war. Political lefty George Galloway also opposes Western support for Ukraine so it's not just the tRumps, Rands, and rightwing nuts who say stay out of it. It's their war, not the UK's or the USA's.
DeleteWhat do you think about Biden's proposed $33B for Ukraine? Tens of thousands of Americans homeless with many standing on breadlines and some going to bed hungry. Yet, Biden will give billions which, of course, go through the military industrial complex which means that its stock holders will profit while the poor starve here.
By the way, just a few days ago a buddy called from NY. He said a friend of his lives in a tenement that several wealthy Ukrainians are trying to buy and convert into a high rent condo. With all the gentrification that is going on his pal (a retiree living on Social Security) may well have to live on the streets because he cannot afford to pay higher rents on a fixed income. This is what happens when the USA sticks its nose in foreign wars - the rich get richer and the poor get screwed.
Anyone who supports Biden's war involvement will be contributing to that. Remember Ron Paul's pals who screamed "let him die!". We will see much more of that when our money goes overseas rather than fixing the mess we have at home.
It's not your anti-war stance. I can respect that. It's your deliberate use of misinformation to justify your position. That I don't respect.
DeleteAs Will Rogers said, "all I know is what I read in the papers". Much of what I've gotten in this matter is from Fox. Many rely on that source, others hate it.
DeleteRe the Biden agenda and prioritization, that's strictly my view. No one will ever convince me that we need to waste more billions overseas while Americans remain homeless and go to sleep at night hungry or to service without health insurance. Nor will you or anyone else convince me that Ukrainian lives matter more than do East Africans or Central Americans whose countries have had violent internecine and border wars for decades.
erratum: delete "to service"
DeleteNot only Fox but a few lefty sources such as George Galloway as well. Therefore, I have used sources from both sides of the political aisle. Very difficult to call that "misinformation". Furthermore, I am not taking sides on the issue as I have said previously. My principle concern being that we need to get our house in order first before intervening in any foreign affair. It's not our war and none of our goddamn business. And frankly, I am profoundly disappointed that anyone should call themselves American while making other people's issues more of a priority than our own.
DeleteFor all your deep concern over where our priorities lay, there are other posts you can respond to that deal with domestic crises in America. Yet, you persist in this argument, thinking you have some kind of upper hand. Fact is Ukraine weighs heavily on Americans' minds. Otherwise, the House wouldn't have passed a $40 billion aid bill specifically earmarked for Ukraine by a whopping margin of 368-57. Rare these days to such overwhelming bipartisan support. This is because the war represents a deep existential threat to peace and security the world over. But, go ahead, persist in you specious argument. If you are interested, I posted on the Alito's leaked abortion opinion and the impact of Musk buying twitter. But then maybe you don't prioritize these issues either.
DeleteAnd why do these politicians prioritize foreign wars? So that the problems that persist and the white power structure can remain in place.
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqt36aQzfao&ab_channel=CBSPhilly
These officers AND THE CHIEF should be fired.
They crossed the line and violated Rodriguez v. United States (3-9972 - 2015) they lost their Qualified Immunity which leaves the officers themselves on the hook for any compensatory damages awarded for the forthcoming lawsuits. The Rodriguez ruling states that it is a violation of your 4th Amendment rights to unjustly prolong a traffic stop without Reasonable Suspicion. Furthermore, the only information the officers were entitled to was the Driver's License, Registration, and Proof of Insurance from the OPERATOR of the vehicle. Passengers have no legal obligation to provide identification to LE officials conducting a traffic stop, nor are they required to assist the police in their investigation.
THEY BEGAN SEARCHING THE BAGS BEFORE THE K9 OFFICER ARRIVED AT THE SCENE.
This was a garbage stop by garbage cops, and it'll cost them their jobs and likely result in a sizable settlement in favor of DSU, the athletes, et al. I can list about a dozen SCOTUS established prohibitions that were violated here.
Go into the inner cities and reservations where blacks, Latins, and other racial/ethnic minorities and lower economic class people live. The people who are not properly represented in Congress. Now tell me they also agree that we need to prioritize foreign affairs and foreign wars. Only a delusional would believe it.
You can't stop can you? The US does so because of the larger threat this war has. Not only is this war impacting the democratic nature of society, but it is causing massive shortfalls in wheat, sunflower oil and other products that are vital the world over, especially in Africa, where many countries had come to depend on Ukrainian wheat and sunflower oil. Russia has blown apart the food supply chain, all for its fictional territorial claims to Ukraine. This on top of altering transportation routes and throwing the Black Sea into turmoil. This affects us as well, as the current inflation, high oil, gas prices and transportation costs can be directly linked to this war. You seem to live in a very isolated world, your own "bubbleville" as Mike Huckabee would say.
DeleteJust to humor you a little, the American Rescue Plan included $17 billion for the VA and $5 billion for Housing Choice Vouchers for people experiencing or at risk of homelessness, survivors of domestic violence, and victims of human trafficking. So, it hasn't been like this administration and Congress has ignored veterans and homeless.
DeleteGood to see that the needy in the USA at least merit some attention, more like an afterthought rather than a priority.
Deletehttps://thehiu.com/they-keep-killing-us-two-decades-later-violence-is-raging-in-darfur-sudan/
ReplyDelete“𝑻𝒉𝒆𝒚 𝒌𝒆𝒆𝒑 𝒌𝒊𝒍𝒍𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝒖𝒔”: 𝑻𝒘𝒐 𝒅𝒆𝒄𝒂𝒅𝒆𝒔 𝒍𝒂𝒕𝒆𝒓, 𝒗𝒊𝒐𝒍𝒆𝒏𝒄𝒆 𝒊𝒔 𝒓𝒂𝒈𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝒊𝒏 𝑫𝒂𝒓𝒇𝒖𝒓, 𝑺𝒖𝒅𝒂𝒏
A soot-smeared shell is all that remains of Awatif Fadl’s home, which was destroyed a year ago when gunmen on camels, horses and motorcycles stormed through Krinding, a remote camp in Darfur, western Sudan, their guns fired and burned down every house insight.
Dozens of people were killed, including nine members of Ms Fadl’s family. Thousands fled, some across the border into Chad. “No one came to save us,” she said.
Now Ms. Fadl, 54, has returned to the camp where her family have built rough shelters in the rubble of their old home. But they don’t feel any less vulnerable. When the gunmen return, she added, “there will still be no one to save us.”
This should not happen in Darfur, a region plagued by two decades of genocidal violence that began in 2003 and resulted in the 𝐝𝐞𝐚𝐭𝐡𝐬 𝐨𝐟 𝐮𝐩 𝐭𝐨 𝟑𝟎𝟎,𝟎𝟎𝟎 𝐩𝐞𝐨𝐩𝐥𝐞. In 2019, a popular uprising ousted Sudan’s longtime ruler, Omar Hassan al-Bashir, and many Darfuris joined the revolution in hopes that it would finally bring peace to their region.
Instead, the situation has only worsened. 𝑽𝒊𝒐𝒍𝒆𝒏𝒕 𝒂𝒕𝒕𝒂𝒄𝒌𝒔 𝒐𝒏 𝒑𝒓𝒆𝒅𝒐𝒎𝒊𝒏𝒂𝒏𝒕𝒍𝒚 𝒆𝒕𝒉𝒏𝒊𝒄 𝑨𝒇𝒓𝒊𝒄𝒂𝒏 𝒄𝒐𝒎𝒎𝒖𝒏𝒊𝒕𝒊𝒆𝒔 𝒉𝒂𝒗𝒆 𝒊𝒏𝒄𝒓𝒆𝒂𝒔𝒆𝒅 𝒐𝒗𝒆𝒓 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝒑𝒂𝒔𝒕 𝒚𝒆𝒂𝒓, 𝒘𝒊𝒕𝒉 𝒎𝒐𝒓𝒆 𝒕𝒉𝒂𝒏 𝟒𝟐𝟎,𝟎𝟎𝟎 𝒑𝒆𝒐𝒑𝒍𝒆 𝒇𝒐𝒓𝒄𝒆𝒅 𝒕𝒐 𝒇𝒍𝒆𝒆 𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒊𝒓 𝒉𝒐𝒎𝒆𝒔 𝒊𝒏 𝟐𝟎𝟐𝟏, 𝒖𝒑 𝒇𝒓𝒐𝒎 𝟓𝟒,𝟎𝟎𝟎 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝒚𝒆𝒂𝒓 𝒃𝒆𝒇𝒐𝒓𝒆, 𝒂𝒄𝒄𝒐𝒓𝒅𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝒕𝒐 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝑼𝒏𝒊𝒕𝒆𝒅 𝑵𝒂𝒕𝒊𝒐𝒏𝒔 𝑶𝒇𝒇𝒊𝒄𝒆 𝒇𝒐𝒓 𝑯𝒖𝒎𝒂𝒏𝒊𝒕𝒂𝒓𝒊𝒂𝒏 𝑨𝒇𝒇𝒂𝒊𝒓𝒔 𝒊𝒏 𝑺𝒖𝒅𝒂𝒏.
The atrocities in Darfur once drew international attention ...
...
“They want to finish us off,” said Ahmed Suleiman, 45, who said 20 relatives have been killed in attacks over the past two years.
People in the camps are being expelled to make way for a free trade zone that would serve Darfur and neighboring countries, led by General Hamdan and state officials with financial backing from the UAE, according to a senior aid official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive matters.
Other factors also play a role. Age-old grievances between African farmers and nomadic Arab herders revolve around both natural resources and land. Herders say the routes they traditionally used during the seasonal migration of animals have been converted to agricultural land, leading to conflicts over access to water and ever-shrinking plots of drought-prone pasture.
“The Arabs are not all Janjaweed,” said Hamid al-Nadir, an Arab leader in west Darfur, adding that clashes resulted in the slaughter of thousands of their goats and camels.
The violence is also fueled by a recent influx of fighters and funds from Libya, where many Darfuris have fought as mercenaries in recent years, UN officials said. Non-Arab communities have begun forming self-defense militias to repel attacks. And the federal government seems helpless to stop the violence, with small disputes in the markets often leading to huge attacks.
...
“They keep killing us,” she said. “But we are one people and we can live together.”
COMBINE ALL THE DEATHS, DISPLACEMENTS, AND INJURIES FROM SUDAN, ERITREA & ETHIOPIA and the number will be FAR higher than anything you see in Europe. Yet, the news media persist in paying attention to what goes on in Europe and ignoring all these atrocities. It seems that their "humanitarian" concerns are only for Europeans, not for those who come from "shit hole" nations. Such a shame.
^Oh, I forgot to add all the death totals from Somalia and the rest of Africa. But then, those are all "shit hole" people so they don't matter, do they?
Delete𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐆𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐭 𝐋𝐢𝐛𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐨𝐫 & 𝐃𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐜𝐫𝐚𝐭 𝐙𝐞𝐥𝐞𝐧𝐳𝐤𝐲𝐲 𝐒𝐢𝐠𝐧𝐬 𝐋𝐚𝐰 𝐓𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐖𝐞𝐞𝐤𝐞𝐧𝐝 𝐁𝐚𝐧𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐎𝐩𝐩𝐨𝐬𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐏𝐚𝐫𝐭𝐢𝐞𝐬 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐒𝐞𝐢𝐳𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐓𝐡𝐞𝐢𝐫 𝐏𝐫𝐨𝐩𝐞𝐫𝐭𝐲
ReplyDeletehttps://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/05/official-zelenzkyy-signs-law-weekend-banning-opposition-parties-seizing-property/
https://www.bing.com/search?q=zelenskyy+signs+law+banning+opposition+parties&cvid=41846b7008054eb9a5f2147cf716bd86&aqs=edge..69i57.25188j0j1&pglt=2467&FORM=ANNTA1&PC=EE04
Note that I used various sources so that no one can accuse me of slanted bias. Viewed objectively it is clear that this clown is not a Democrat. Thus, when he is accused of fascism now you know why.
Gateway pundit is noted for its conservative slants, which really makes me wonder where you are coming from?
Deletehttps://www.politifact.com/personalities/gateway-pundit/
This would be the type of link a troll would post to justify his views. If you read better detailed articles on the subject, you will find that Ukraine specifically banned political parties with close ties to Moscow, Medvedchuk being a close friend to Putin himself.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/ukraine-suspends-11-political-parties-with-links-to-russia
Also, you have a very poor understanding of how a blog works. I post on topics and issues that are of interest to me, especially as they relate to my experience in Lithuania. My concerns are obviously very different from yours. I link respected journalistic sources so that others can draw their own conclusions. It's not like I don't think or worry about some of the situations you describe. They just don't have much priority in my thoughts right now, and so I don't feel inclined to post about them, nor really engage in discussion on them.
DeleteGateway is conservative but many of the other sources on Bing are not. As always I use multiple sources with various slants so that no one can accuse me of bias leaning either way. Always best to keep an open mind. Anyways, I hope you are now happy that Biden signed the relief package for Ukraine even though they didn't pay one cent in taxes to our government while millions at home still go without health care and other essential services.
DeleteThe seige at Mariupol is reportedly over.
ReplyDeleteUkes say withdrawal while Ruskies say Azov & Co surrender.
What do you say?
I don't know what Gateway Pundit has to say on the subject, but from what I read Ukraine and Russia worked out a deal where the battalion would surrender and then they would do a prisoner swap, but now the Duma wants to treat the Azov Battalion as war criminals and do a big show trial back in Moscow. Russia refused an offer by Turkey to take the battalion out by boat. But, eh, maybe you have better sources?
ReplyDeleteThat's the problem - with everybody giving us different "facts" who(m) do we believe?
DeleteLeftist Jackson Hinkle says it was a surrender as Uke forces are being used as "cannon fodder":
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjbyYtbTuO0&ab_channel=TheDivewithJacksonHinkle
The usual political divide in the USA is not a factor in how people view this issue. I am amazed that many on the pro Russia side are both left/right while others in the pro Ukraine side are left/right as well.
total Russian military budget = $65 billion
ReplyDeletetotal US $ given to Ukraine = $54 billion according to NY Times
American taxpayers giving away nearly as much money as Russia's military budget.
Just today I passed by the tent city in down town St Paul where so many poor & homeless congregate. Ask them if we should prioritize Ukraine over some imagined "threat" rather than in helping the poor domestically and solving our own problems.
Here's the difference between you and me, Trip. I've written 21 posts since this one on a wide range of topics, yet you continue to comment here. You can't let this one go. You set up straw man arguments for no other purpose than a conversation of sorts. Well, the situation will play out in Ukraine as it does. I posted on Mariupol. I'm not responding to your comments in this post anymore.
DeleteOkie doke. Was going to comment on Kissinger's idea but will let it go
Deletehttps://am-perspectives.blogspot.com/2022/05/kissinger-at-davos.html
DeleteA return to permanent war is here: First it will bankrupt America, then destroy it
Opinion by Chris Hedges
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/a-return-to-permanent-war-is-here-first-it-will-bankrupt-america-then-destroy-it/ar-AAXKvkH?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=a1bf8b26735d4e94a8974b40fcf26242
The United States, as the near-unanimous vote to provide nearly $40 billion in aid to Ukraine illustrates, is trapped in the death spiral of unchecked militarism. No high speed trains. No universal health care. No viable COVID relief program. No respite from 8.3% inflation. No infrastructure programs to repair decaying roads and bridges, which require $41.8 billion to fix the 43,586 structurally deficient bridges, on average 68 years old. No forgiveness of $1.7 trillion in student debt. No addressing income inequality. No program to feed the 17 million children who go to bed each night hungry. No rational gun control or curbing of the epidemic of nihilistic violence and mass shootings. No help for the 100,000 Americans who die each year of drug overdoses. No minimum wage of $15 an hour to counter 44 years of wage stagnation. No respite from gas prices that are projected to hit $6 a gallon.
The permanent war economy, implanted since the end of World War II, has destroyed the private economy, bankrupted the nation, and squandered trillions of dollars of taxpayer money. The monopolization of capital by the military has driven the US debt to $30 trillion, $6 trillion more than the US GDP of $24 trillion. Servicing this debt costs $300 billion a year. We spent more on the military, $813 billion for fiscal year 2023, than the next nine countries, including China and Russia, combined.
We are paying a heavy social, political and economic cost for our militarism. Washington watches passively as the U.S. rots, morally, politically, economically and physically, while China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, India and other countries extract themselves from the tyranny of the U.S. dollar and the international Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT), a messaging network banks and other financial institutions use to send and receive information, such as money transfer instructions. Once the U.S. dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency, once there is an alternative to SWIFT, it will precipitate an internal economic collapse. It will force the immediate contraction of the U.S. empire shuttering most of its nearly 800 overseas military installations. It will signal the death of Pax Americana.
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The USA was never more divided than during the imperialistic Vietnam war and during Bush II terrorist invasion of Iraq. This goes to show that foreign war is divisive. It does absolutely NOTHING good for the nation and the people. Yes it does bring multiple billions of untaxed war profits into the wicked hands of the military industrial complex while promoting the careerism of certain ambitious politicians. But it sure as hell won't do me or anyone I know any good at all. That's why such foreign wars are treason. Nothing more. We have nothing at stake in the present conflict which is the same with the wars in East Africa that everybody is ignoring even though they are bloodier.
ReplyDeletebloody war(s) in East Africa: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/over-200-feared-dead-in-ethiopia-massacre/ar-AAYDKD6?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=1ebbc4ac990146a6af52a272e6cbb34a
Deletefar bloodier but nobody lifts a finger to stop it